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Inspiration

Soul Perception After Stroke:Finding Grace in Suffering

Be Here Now Network
Be Here Now Network
Sep 8, 2026
7 min de lecture
À regarder · 6

In Yonkers, New York, on September 29, 2001—just weeks after the attacks on the World Trade Center—Ram Dass sat before an audience wrestling with questions that had no clean answers. He spoke from a body still remaking itself, five years after a stroke that had shattered his independence and forced him to reconstruct his spiritual understanding from the ground up. The talk that emerged was not the voice of a teacher safely perched on philosophical high ground, but of a man genuinely inside the paradox of physical suffering, psychological grief, and spiritual seeking.

The stroke itself had arrived as a spiritual catastrophe. Ram Dass, who had spent decades following the path of his guru, Neem Karoli Baba, believed himself to be living under grace. "I felt graceful ever since I known him," he said, his speech still affected by aphasia, words sometimes stubborn to retrieve. "My life graced." But then came the stroke—the paralysis, the spasticity, the pain. In the hospital's first month, he found himself caught between two narratives, unable to hold them both. "Grace. Stroke. Grace. Stroke. Grace." The contradiction was unbearable. If he truly lived under his guru's grace, where was it in this? What was the stroke doing there at all?

Lecture · 4 sections

From Ego Watching to Soul Witnessing

The breakthrough came when Ram Dass shifted the plane from which he was perceiving. He stopped identifying with the person who had suffered the stroke—the ego's story of loss and diminishment—and began to observe from a different vantage point. "Soul perception is sort of watching it all happen," he explained. "I began to be a watcher. I watched him, who had the stroke. I was watching the stroke melodrama. And I noticed that the stroke had pushed me, my consciousness, to the Witness."

This distinction was not philosophical abstraction. It was the difference between suffering and witnessing suffering, between being trapped in a narrative and being able to see the narrative itself. From the ego's perspective, the stroke was a catastrophe. From the soul's perspective—what he called the Witness—it was an education in consciousness itself. The stroke had accomplished what spiritual practice often takes decades to achieve: it had forced his awareness away from identification with the body and personality, into identification with the observing consciousness itself.

He began to call this shift "tough grace." The therapists who came to help him saw him not as a broken person deserving pity, but as one soul encountering other souls. "What the stroke forced me into was seeing myself as a soul," he said, "and it takes one to know one." The distinction transformed the relationship. They were no longer caregiver and patient, but consciousness meeting consciousness, temporarily housed in different kinds of incarnations.

A Model of Three Planes

To make sense of his experience, Ram Dass drew on what he called a "perennial philosophy"—a synthesis drawn from Buddhism, Hinduism, and his own decades of spiritual practice. He proposed that we are three-plane beings: ego, soul, and the One.

The ego, he explained, is the plane of personality, preference, and fear. It has "hundreds of motives, hundreds of things it pulls to and pulls away from." The ego identifies with the body, with its vulnerabilities, and thus with death. "When you identify with the incarnation," he said, "you get frightened of death."

The soul, by contrast, has only one motive: to merge with the beloved, with the One. It experiences the incarnation not as drama but as information. The soul sees through incarnations as if turning pages in a book. "The soul," Ram Dass said, "goes on and it sees death as merely the end of the chapter." Karma from past lives shapes which incarnation a soul finds itself in, but the soul itself—the awareness underlying personality—persists through these chapters, learning lessons of love and suffering until, finally, it dissolves back into the source.

The third plane—the One, the atman in Hindu philosophy, the "still small voice of God" in Quaker language—is the unified consciousness of which individual souls are expressions. "Your number three and my number three and one are all the same not part of there is one," he said. "Your awareness is part of number three."

The practical application was direct: you can live on two levels at once. Krishna tells Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita to "do what you do in life but dedicated to me God." In other words, live a dharmic life—fulfill your duties, engage with the world—but live from the soul plane, remembering that all action is ultimately an offering to the One. Your body may be in pain, your personality confused, but the soul has no confusion. It knows what it came here to do: to learn love, to encounter suffering without contraction, to remember itself as an expression of the beloved.

What Could a Culture's Stroke Teach?

The talk took its deepest turn when Ram Dass considered whether the nation itself might undergo a similar shift. The attacks of September 11th had arrived like a collective stroke—sudden, catastrophic, a shattering of assumptions about safety and the way the world worked. Could a culture, like a person, be pushed by trauma into a higher plane of consciousness?

"I mean I can see that the culture at September 11th got its stroke," he said. "And then stroke grace grace. A castinated teacher kept death over the left shoulder boy death." His words here were fragments, made more powerful by the aphasia that sometimes broke his speech—as if his body itself was testifying to the rawness of that moment, to the difficulty of holding such large suffering.

He noticed that the churches were full. People were calling him, asking what he made of it all. He told them the only answer that mattered: "Go to the tiptop tip of your insides and then you can have the answer because that's where I'm going." The trauma, if allowed to do its work, could push consciousness into other realms. "You can scratch this culture and you will find that the culture is reaching for their connection to the beloved."

But this wouldn't happen automatically. It required a choice: to meet the suffering not at the level of ego—where it becomes only grief and rage—but at the level of soul, where even catastrophe becomes a catalyst for consciousness. The alternative was to stay trapped in the ego's story, drowning in trauma, asking only "why me?" without moving toward the deeper question: "What is being asked of me now?"

Living as Souls in Incarnation

Ram Dass's fundamental teaching in this talk was simple and radical: you are not your body, not your mind, not your personality. You are the consciousness observing all of these. And that consciousness—the soul—is eternal, wise, and motivated by a single drive: to return to love, to the One.

Most people, he suggested, spend their entire lives identified with the incarnation—the temporary form, the personality, the drama of the body and its circumstances. They never shift into soul perception. They never discover that it's possible to be in pain without being diminished, to face loss without being destroyed, to encounter even death with the calm recognition of a soul turning another page.

The stroke had been his teacher. In stripping away his independence, in making him dependent—exactly the condition his ego had feared most—it had pushed him into the only independence that actually matters: the independence of consciousness itself, which cannot be stolen, cannot be damaged, cannot be diminished. "I was used to being independent and now I was dependent," he said. "Paul Gorman and I wrote a book, How can I help? And now I'd write the book, How Can You Help Me?" The reversal was complete. And in that reversal lay a new kind of freedom.

This is the fierce grace: that trauma, if met with the right awareness, becomes not a punishment but a doorway. Not something that happens to you, but something that happens for you, that the soul itself may have arranged to move you closer to what you came here to learn.

Transcript

[0:05] You can scratch this culture [music] and

[0:08] you will find

[0:10] that the culture is reaching

[0:13] for their connection to [music] the

[0:16] beloved.

[0:18] Every church is full.

[0:21] [music] People call me and say, "What do

[0:25] you think of

[0:27] September 11th?

[0:30] What do you feel about? I say, well, why

[0:32] don't you go to the tiptop tip of your

[0:37] insides [music] and then you can have

[0:41] the answer because that's where I'm

[0:43] going.

[0:45] The trauma pushed me up into.

[0:51] All I ask of everybody

[0:56] is that they go [music] inside

[1:01] to find the answer.

[1:08] Welcome to Ramdas here and now. This is

[1:12] episode 312,

[1:14] Soul Perception. This talk was recorded

[1:18] in Yonkers, New York on September 29th,

[1:22] 2001.

[1:23] So just a few weeks after the attacks of

[1:26] September 11th. So before we begin, just

[1:30] a note, this recording includes

[1:33] discussion from 9/11 and some raw

[1:36] responses from people who were living

[1:38] through its immediate aftermath. We're

[1:42] sharing it not to reopen old wounds but

[1:46] because the questions Ramdas was willing

[1:49] to sit with in that moment and some of

[1:52] them are really difficult questions.

[1:55] What happens to our spiritual

[1:56] understanding when something comes along

[1:58] that we cannot explain fix or fit neatly

[2:03] into our ideas about how life is

[2:07] supposed to work. Ramdas knew something

[2:09] about that by this point. In his own

[2:11] life, he'd been radically changed by a

[2:14] stroke five years earlier. And in this

[2:18] talk, you can hear him wrestling with

[2:19] it. He's still, you know, challenged by

[2:22] words affected by the aphasia. Uh it's

[2:26] not this like distant philosophical

[2:28] perch, but he's inside this body that is

[2:31] in pain and doesn't work and a life that

[2:35] was nothing like he expected it to go.

[2:38] So, it's really intimate to listen to

[2:40] him here. And he doesn't resolve the

[2:42] contradictions for us. He asks us to

[2:46] look more deeply at who we think we are

[2:50] and what we trust when the ground is

[2:52] moving beneath us and whether there

[2:55] might be another way to see things. But

[2:57] for now, here is Rondos here and now.

[3:02] [music]

[3:07] >> [music]

[3:09] >> This is Ramdas

[3:12] and the show is called Here and Now

[3:14] [music] with Ramdas.

[3:21] >> [music]

[3:22] >> I had a stroke about um

[3:27] five years ago and um

[3:31] [snorts] I feel stroked

[3:35] and the stroke was traumatic

[3:40] for me.

[3:42] It affect my body

[3:47] spasticity and and pain.

[3:53] And then there were other

[3:56] things. I was used to being um

[4:00] independent

[4:01] and now I was dependent.

[4:05] Paul Gorman and I wrote a book, How can

[4:08] I help?

[4:10] And now I'd write the book, How Can You

[4:13] Help Me?

[4:20] And I suffered

[4:22] I suffered

[4:25] spiritually

[4:28] because

[4:30] I followed the sadna

[4:33] of guru kria

[4:36] the guru's grace

[4:39] and I felt myself having my guru nim

[4:43] karobi baba I felt graceful

[4:49] ever Since I known known him, my my life

[4:54] graced.

[4:57] So the stroke

[5:00] was spiritually

[5:03] disappointing because

[5:06] if I was under his grace

[5:10] this stroke

[5:15] and I spent the first month or so

[5:19] in the hospital

[5:23] Maharaj's grace

[5:27] The stroke.

[5:30] Grace. Stroke.

[5:35] Grace.

[5:37] But the stroke. What's it doing here?

[5:42] It's grace.

[5:45] I was having a good time showing

[5:50] how the the stroke was graceful.

[5:56] These two were trying to get together

[6:00] because I wasn't wasn't using other

[6:04] people's minds because they were all,

[6:07] "Oh, you poor person.

[6:10] You stroked."

[6:16] And I'd get this poor me

[6:26] And then

[6:28] the whole business became

[6:31] so too much

[6:33] between the physical and the

[6:35] psychological and the spiritual. Ah

[6:41] it forced me to go from

[6:46] my ego to my soul.

[6:51] I I forced my perception.

[6:55] I was looking from ego perception which

[6:59] oh this is a drag. What ooh this pain ah

[7:03] my body

[7:08] soul perception is is sort of um

[7:12] [clears throat] watching it all happen.

[7:14] So I began to be a watcher. I watched

[7:19] him who had the stroke. I was watching

[7:23] the stroke melodrama

[7:27] and I noticed that the stroke had pushed

[7:29] me my consciousness

[7:33] to the witness.

[7:36] That's pretty graceful.

[7:41] There were um graceful things about the

[7:43] stroke. I mean before I had the stroke I

[7:47] had to you know I'd have little bits of

[7:50] grace all you must have them you know uh

[7:54] a parking space you say come on Maharaji

[7:59] come on you can give me that one parking

[8:01] space and and sometimes it works and but

[8:07] pretty good it's pretty good and then

[8:10] this stroke is it graceful I mean Look

[8:18] [applause]

[8:32] and I started to bring the two things

[8:34] together. [clears throat]

[8:37] This stroke I called tough grace.

[8:45] And the therapists they came to me they

[8:48] were souls and I was a soul and we

[8:54] interacted with we with others with

[8:58] other they did their therapy but we were

[9:02] souls together

[9:08] because what the stroke forced me into

[9:11] was seeing myself as a soul

[9:15] and it takes one to know one.

[9:19] So I look at you and I see all souls.

[9:25] Souls in an incarnation and most of you

[9:30] you souls are like I have been many

[9:33] times identified with the incarnations.

[9:40] See, I um you all probably know that I

[9:45] I've taken many paths. [snorts] What I

[9:48] didn't learn from one, I learned from

[9:51] another.

[9:53] Always I kept learning.

[9:56] And then then I followed Buddha and then

[10:01] I followed Hindu thing. But now I'm

[10:08] making up my own model.

[10:16] I've called it from perennial philosophy

[10:19] and Buddhism. And

[10:23] it sounds like this.

[10:26] We are three plained beings. Three plain

[10:32] beings.

[10:34] First plane is ego.

[10:37] The second plane is soul.

[10:41] The third plane is the third plane.

[10:48] That'll save enough arguments.

[10:59] Now what's interesting is

[11:02] the ego tends to die at the end of the

[11:06] incarnation

[11:07] and take with it all its personality.

[11:11] The soul goes on

[11:16] and it sees death as merely the end of

[11:19] the chapter.

[11:21] After enough chapters,

[11:25] when it has learned the lessons of love

[11:30] and suffering,

[11:32] then it comes to the end of the cycle

[11:36] and we disappear into the beloved.

[11:43] Souls have karma from past lives and

[11:48] from this life.

[11:50] and you find a a a an incarnation,

[11:55] it fits you. It fits you. And what it

[11:58] doesn't fit, you make it. It's it's a

[12:02] creative matter. Your soul creates your

[12:09] your incarnation.

[12:11] Now, I am a motivational psychologist.

[12:18] The ego has hundreds of motives,

[12:21] hundreds of things it pulls to and pulls

[12:25] away from. But the soul has only one

[12:30] motive and that is to meld with the

[12:33] beloved with the one.

[12:38] my body is this way and my personality

[12:43] is this way and I can identify with

[12:47] those things or I can pull back to the

[12:51] soul and see what this has to do with my

[12:57] motive of getting to the beloved.

[13:00] Krishna says to Arjuna in the Bhagavad

[13:04] Gita, do what you do in life [snorts]

[13:08] but dedicated to me God.

[13:13] In other words, live a dharmic life.

[13:17] In other words, live on two levels at

[13:20] once.

[13:24] You're living as souls in this setting,

[13:30] this incarnation.

[13:32] Now when you identify with the

[13:35] incarnation,

[13:37] you get frightened of death.

[13:45] So I am a ego and I get scared

[13:53] and then I'm a soul and I say isn't that

[13:58] interesting.

[14:01] The soul just experiences

[14:04] the

[14:05] incarnation by witnessing it. Now this

[14:10] is all mind garbage.

[14:15] I am giving you one of my mind moments.

[14:21] If you can use it fine but you can

[14:26] forget it.

[14:29] [laughter]

[14:30] I mean, everybody can make these up

[14:33] these. The mind

[14:38] because the mind is

[14:42] the mind down in the ego stuff.

[14:46] Where did that come from? That came from

[14:49] the soul created that.

[14:53] Where did the soul come from? The

[14:56] creator. The creator uses my mind for

[15:00] its creation.

[15:05] Your awareness is part of number three.

[15:09] When you say I

[15:13] the awareness

[15:16] and that that number three has a very

[15:19] mystical part because your number three

[15:22] and my number three

[15:25] and one are all the same not part of

[15:32] there is

[15:34] one.

[15:38] Number three is also called the atman

[15:43] in Hinduism

[15:46] is it's called the still small voice of

[15:49] God in the Quakers.

[15:59] See, I've been thinking

[16:01] whether my little storyline for one

[16:05] person, [clears throat] my trauma

[16:08] started to me to wake up to other realms

[16:13] of consciousness.

[16:15] Do you suppose that our culture can do

[16:20] it?

[16:21] I mean I can see that the culture

[16:25] at September 11th got its stroke

[16:30] and then

[16:36] stroke

[16:38] grace

[16:41] grace

[16:43] a castinated teacher kept death over the

[16:48] left shoulder

[16:50] boy death.

[16:53] You can scratch this culture and you

[16:56] will find

[16:58] that the culture is reaching for their

[17:03] connection to the beloved.

[17:08] Every church is full.

[17:12] People call me and say, "What do you

[17:16] [snorts] think of

[17:18] September 11th?

[17:21] What do you feel about?" I say, "Well,

[17:24] why don't you go to the tiptop tip of

[17:28] your insides and then you can have the

[17:33] answer because that's where I'm going."

[17:37] the trauma pushed me up into.

[17:46] All I ask of everybody

[17:51] is that they go inside

[17:56] to find the answer.

[18:01] >> [snorts]

[18:03] >> I know I've been um I've been rascally a

[18:08] little bit but

[18:11] like I have I've studied Shiva. Shiva

[18:14] who is God.

[18:17] Could you imagine Shiva piloting a

[18:21] plane?

[18:30] Something will happen

[18:33] where

[18:35] the souls will remember.

[18:39] They will remember.

[18:48] We are

[18:51] becoming

[18:52] human.

[18:55] Human.

[18:57] the way we are concerned about our

[19:00] families.

[19:01] We are living [clears throat] in

[19:03] community.

[19:06] But let's not forget human is one two

[19:13] three. I I I

[19:18] you see I used to sit a bedside for

[19:22] dying people.

[19:27] >> [snorts]

[19:28] >> And the person would be lying in bed

[19:34] and I would be Mr. Death. I mean Mr. You

[19:39] know Ramdas will come and he'll make all

[19:42] right. So

[19:44] I got nothing else to do.

[19:48] And I I feature sitting by dying people

[19:53] because that's the best way you get. Hi,

[20:01] they got nothing to lose.

[20:04] So it's not like egos.

[20:08] I took care of my father and he was such

[20:12] a beautiful soul

[20:15] and for all those years

[20:18] I never once noticed

[20:21] his ego was

[20:25] and mine was

[20:27] and we father and son

[20:33] I used to come to people's bedrooms so

[20:37] I'd be outside and I I say here I go Mr.

[20:41] death and I'm going, you know, how

[20:45] become the role. I become the role.

[20:48] Black bag and a somber look and

[20:54] hello. Yes.

[20:56] Nothing to be worried. No.

[21:03] And even at that time they felt better

[21:08] because of my visit.

[21:12] But then I get to the point where

[21:16] outside the room [clears throat]

[21:18] I would say, "Who am I?

[21:23] Who am I? I'm a soul."

[21:33] And I'd open the door and there on the

[21:35] bed would be a fellow soul.

[21:41] I used to go in and say there is a

[21:45] cancer patient or there is an AIDS

[21:47] patient and I am visiting the Morabund.

[21:53] We were our roles. We were our roles

[21:58] like you're my mother, you're my my

[22:02] lover. But these are all love roles.

[22:06] But I forgot the roles.

[22:10] There was a soul and here's a soul. A

[22:14] soul friend.

[22:17] Then you say, "How's your how's your

[22:20] incarnation going these days?"

[22:25] And they might say, "Well, it's probably

[22:29] going to spread

[22:31] from my liver to my

[22:39] we were we were talking

[22:42] as souls. We were not experiencing

[22:45] anxiety.

[22:47] We were talking about the weather,

[22:52] the weather of our bodies.

[22:54] And we were two souls

[22:58] who came from

[23:01] God.

[23:07] When two souls meet, it's like

[23:12] heart-to-heart

[23:14] resuscitation.

[23:16] It was what my guru showed me.

[23:20] He mirrored

[23:23] my soul.

[23:26] He mirrored me as a spiritual being.

[23:32] These three eyes,

[23:35] all of us have them. But what you do is

[23:38] you identify with one of the three.

[23:44] and identifying with them, you change

[23:48] your perception.

[23:53] Like if I put my identify with my soul,

[23:58] we are a group of souls

[24:02] trying to figure out what we're doing

[24:05] here.

[24:09] There's a spiritual master who's who was

[24:13] a great great master named Romano

[24:16] Maharshi

[24:18] and he said lectures are for

[24:21] entertainment

[24:22] silence is for deepening. [sighs]

[24:26] So my lectures for the past few weeks

[24:33] have been

[24:35] silence

[24:37] until

[24:39] one of us has a question.

[24:42] We will silence

[24:46] and then somebody will have a question.

[24:50] Now don't waste the silence

[24:53] waiting.

[24:56] The question can be about anything.

[25:01] It can be the world.

[25:06] It can be anything about you or me.

[25:11] So [clears throat]

[25:14] after you surf the silence,

[25:18] let it go into you

[25:21] until you identify with number three.

[25:27] The silence.

[25:30] The silent space in you.

[25:35] This peaceful

[25:37] space in you.

[25:41] peaceful space in you.

[25:45] But anytime you have a question,

[25:48] just raise your hand.

[25:51] I I would like you to help me understand

[25:55] where were all the souls before humanity

[25:59] was created. Where will all the souls be

[26:02] after humanity ceases to exist? And in

[26:07] our arrogance, how do we help me

[26:09] understand how we relate to who we are,

[26:12] what we are, and where our souls are in

[26:15] a infinite concept of the universe which

[26:19] is beyond our comprehension.

[26:23] There are many many more souls than

[26:26] people. And

[26:30] the souls look around for incarnations

[26:34] and some of them find

[26:37] in here and some of them find in other

[26:42] planes.

[26:44] We tend to think this is a a plane of uh

[26:49] highly valued.

[26:52] This is like the third grade.

[26:55] [laughter]

[26:58] I want to go back to the first third

[27:01] grade. I want the teacher there. Please,

[27:04] please

[27:06] don't me won't make me go into the

[27:08] fourth grade.

[27:11] You know what is happening is happening.

[27:16] I don't secondguess God the creator.

[27:22] is not a separate being, but it's it's

[27:25] all of this.

[27:27] See, if I said that's a terrible thing

[27:31] in lower Manhattan,

[27:34] terrible. I wouldn't have done it that

[27:37] way if I was God.

[27:44] And I I'm

[27:47] tired all of criticizing God.

[27:53] So therefore,

[27:55] I make things as nice as my my for other

[28:02] people and myself as my limited

[28:05] compassion allows.

[28:08] And then I don't question. I live this

[28:13] moment. [sighs]

[28:15] This moment it's like baklava. You know

[28:18] there is honey and there's nuts

[28:24] [laughter]

[28:28] [snorts]

[28:31] but like that that's all this moment.

[28:36] Now sir now what was your question?

[28:50] What?

[28:51] >> I think you've given me the answer.

[28:54] >> Thank you. [laughter]

[28:58] He He's a shell.

[29:02] [laughter]

[29:12] Yes.

[29:14] >> Okay. Ramdas.

[29:16] >> Yes.

[29:16] >> Um I noticed you said during your talk

[29:19] that um the souls keep coming back

[29:24] until it learns all it can learn about

[29:26] love. And I said ah. Then you waited a

[29:31] pause and you go and suffering. And I

[29:33] said, "Ah, I what I wanted to know was

[29:38] how much does love and suffering

[29:40] overlap? How much are they one and the

[29:42] same? And how much are they polar

[29:44] opposites?

[29:47] And if it they are polar opposites, do

[29:49] we have to really learn that much about

[29:51] suffering? Can we go more love side?

[29:55] >> I can't hear this. This is

[30:03] love and suffering

[30:05] the same.

[30:06] >> Yeah.

[30:07] >> Can we avoid the suffering of just love?

[30:10] [laughter]

[30:11] >> Okay. Thank you. Um

[30:19] my guru made a statement once.

[30:23] There was a young girl at the darian

[30:27] a young Indian girl

[30:30] and she said

[30:32] Maharaji I've had so much suffering in

[30:35] my life and Maharaji said

[30:40] you know he said

[30:42] suffering

[30:44] gets me clo so so close to God

[30:49] suffering gets me so close to God that's

[30:53] One of the lessons you have to learn,

[30:59] I don't see any suffering in love.

[31:05] I don't see any.

[31:09] And I missed something.

[31:13] I just can't see it.

[31:17] Love cementss things. relationships.

[31:23] Love brings you so close to God.

[31:30] So do you now feel

[31:33] that the these are only same?

[31:37] Yeah. You feel love and

[31:41] >> um I would have to say from what you

[31:43] said that I feel that they're one and

[31:45] the same and they're also mutually

[31:47] exclusive.

[31:49] >> Um

[31:50] You need both. That the suffering

[31:54] maybe is just an illusion for love that

[31:57] behind it there is love on a soul level.

[32:00] >> It is. That's true. Yes. Yes.

[32:04] >> Nice. Yes.

[32:07] Yes.

[32:10] The the ego suffers.

[32:14] The

[32:15] the soul does nothing for love but love

[32:21] but love.

[32:23] It loves other souls but that takes to

[32:28] the beloved.

[32:33] The love that we have for one another is

[32:37] a royal road to loving the beloved.

[32:43] You read all this, but let me say you um

[32:47] [clears throat]

[32:48] I came in a car to him and the night

[32:52] before

[32:54] I was 100 kilometers away and I needed

[32:58] to go to the bathroom and I went outside

[33:02] and the stars were like Van Go and I

[33:07] stopped

[33:09] and I thought of my mother who had died

[33:14] just a month earlier.

[33:17] I just felt her presence and then I went

[33:22] to the bathroom. Of course, I'm a

[33:25] Freudian. So, the fact that I'm the

[33:30] [laughter]

[33:41] Well,

[33:43] um, and the next day we went the

[33:47] kilometers up to the mountains and we

[33:49] stopped at this temple. The fellow I was

[33:52] with stopped. He wanted to see his guru

[33:56] to get his visa extended.

[33:59] And I sat in the car. I didn't want to I

[34:04] didn't want it to Hindu gurus.

[34:08] I didn't Hinduism

[34:11] daylow paint and and fluorescent lights

[34:16] and oh jeez,

[34:20] I was nice clean Buddhist.

[34:26] And

[34:29] so the Indians around the car said to

[34:33] me, "Go see him." So I got out of the

[34:37] car and I went up the hill, this rocky

[34:40] hill, and I stood apart from the scene.

[34:44] And this fat old gentleman

[34:49] with a few people around him

[34:52] and this fellow I had come with he's in

[34:57] Dunda Prrenam. He's on his belly

[35:00] touching this man's feet.

[35:03] [clears throat]

[35:04] So I

[35:06] didn't look the light look. I didn't

[35:09] want to touch his feet. That mean this?

[35:13] No. No. Why? I'm My hands were in the

[35:17] pockets and

[35:23] um uh they gave us food and then he

[35:27] said, "Will you buy one of those cars

[35:30] you couple and give it to me?" This was

[35:34] a car I had borrowed from another

[35:38] friend. First he will you give me that

[35:41] car and this fellow who was with

[35:45] Maharaji you can if you want it you can

[35:48] have it

[35:53] you know [clears throat]

[35:56] and I got very agitated

[36:02] so he said what's the matter I said well

[36:08] you can't Give the get that car. It's

[36:11] not.

[36:15] So this fat man says,

[36:19] "You buy me for me one like that."

[36:24] I have a a family that Jewish

[36:27] fundraisers.

[36:29] And I have never seen

[36:32] I've never seen a go anything like this.

[36:35] I mean, he's just

[36:38] this this

[36:41] guy uh asking to

[36:44] a Land Rover

[36:49] and I was getting more um uptight.

[36:54] And um

[36:58] and then he said, "Come, come sit."

[37:03] And then he said, "You were out on the

[37:07] under the stars last night

[37:10] thinking about your mother."

[37:15] Now,

[37:16] I was a western psychologist.

[37:21] We can't do that.

[37:31] And I was desperately thinking,

[37:35] how does he do it? I mean, he he's a

[37:39] maybe he's a he's got my file

[37:42] underground or something like that.

[37:47] And I was my mind was going, "Oh,

[37:52] because

[37:54] wow, if that if he knows that."

[37:59] Ooh.

[38:02] [laughter]

[38:06] And I couldn't look at him

[38:09] because of all the stuff he knew about

[38:12] me.

[38:15] And then

[38:18] I looked and he was looking at me with

[38:23] unconditional love.

[38:26] He just looked at me with love.

[38:30] Up to that moment,

[38:33] I had always thought

[38:37] that if somebody really knew me, they

[38:41] would never love me.

[38:44] and he knew me [sighs]

[38:47] and he loved me.

[38:51] I didn't even know him.

[38:55] And that that was the love that drew me

[39:00] in.

[39:02] Drew me in

[39:04] the unconditional love.

[39:09] And now as a soul, I look at each person

[39:14] as a soul,

[39:16] as a lovable being with their

[39:20] incarnations here and there. Before I

[39:24] met him, I was

[39:28] identified with my ego.

[39:39] I sit [clears throat]

[39:41] in my home and I look out a big window

[39:47] and the the San Francisco, the bay,

[39:52] the mountains, the trees, the birds,

[39:59] and I go up the mountains and I blend

[40:03] with the sky.

[40:07] And I thinking [clears throat] about

[40:09] this

[40:10] um I'm an old

[40:14] I'm an old fart

[40:17] sitting by a window

[40:19] looking out a window. That's what

[40:23] somebody would say.

[40:26] I'm 70. That's what old

[40:29] I suppose.

[40:32] But what I'm doing

[40:35] is blending those three things

[40:39] identifying

[40:40] with that quiet peaceful

[40:45] totality.

[40:48] So now I've got the conundrum

[40:52] doing that

[40:56] or doing this.

[41:00] This is what I do before the stroke.

[41:04] But now I could just sit out the sit

[41:09] sit look out the window.

[41:14] And I I thought those two

[41:18] actions,

[41:20] what would be compassion compassionate?

[41:25] Which one for this culture?

[41:30] I brings silence

[41:33] to the culture by my silence

[41:39] or

[41:41] I bring words.

[41:48] Excuse me. On all these levels that you

[41:50] talk to us about, do you think that

[41:52] there's a

[41:55] um a universal healing like on the level

[41:58] of a stroke that one day there may be

[42:01] some kind of cure for it and on the

[42:03] level of the bombing of the

[42:07] September 11th that there will be some

[42:09] kind of healing that will take place.

[42:14] I I find the term healing like people

[42:18] said why don't you heal and I feel

[42:22] healing is becoming one with the beloved

[42:26] curing is something else

[42:30] September 11th this culture will never

[42:35] be the same never. So it won't be cured

[42:40] but it will be healed.

[42:44] Um, Ramdas, thank you so much for coming

[42:46] here. We really appreciate it. Um, you

[42:49] had asked before that when people were

[42:51] calling you and many people also called

[42:53] me about September 11th and asked, you

[42:56] know, what I felt about it and I thought

[42:59] maybe if I shared with you what I, you

[43:02] know, came to in my own

[43:06] level three or whatever you call it, you

[43:07] might share a little bit of yours. For

[43:09] me, what I I went down there recently

[43:12] just to see it because I've just been in

[43:15] my head seeing newspapers or TV and I

[43:17] wanted to feel it and not deny what

[43:19] actually happened and pretend that

[43:21] everything's the same. And what I came

[43:23] to was like boiling water. that water

[43:26] when it boils

[43:28] all the impurities rise to the top and

[43:33] boil off and that um as much uh hatred

[43:38] and anger as I have in myself or others

[43:41] have collectively this is boiling up and

[43:45] I've seen in the streets of Manhattan an

[43:47] outpouring of light um last the two

[43:50] Friday nights ago right at the time of

[43:51] the Sabbath everyone in the city was out

[43:54] in the streets with candles and being in

[43:56] silence and uh

[44:00] it was very very moving for me and I

[44:02] just felt like this is this hatred and

[44:05] anger within each of us is being shown

[44:07] to us

[44:09] and it's it's not bad or wrong that we

[44:11] we get we have to see it now and I was

[44:14] just wondering in your own level three

[44:17] you know you said your ego your soul and

[44:20] the nameless third level what you've

[44:22] come to for yourself in terms of what

[44:25] happened to us September 11th, how we

[44:27] can integrate it into our culture.

[44:32] >> I see it as I've told you, I've seen

[44:36] September 11th as

[44:39] as fierce grace

[44:42] and it is graceful.

[44:46] What did Ramdas say? He said the

[44:51] boy that's going to that's going to sell

[44:54] in New York. [laughter]

[45:04] I

[45:06] I have anger towards the people that did

[45:10] the these things because they took

[45:15] they took life. They took happiness.

[45:19] They took they to they took

[45:23] our naivveness.

[45:27] But that's the mind.

[45:31] The heart feels it feels compassion for

[45:36] the people who lost somebody.

[45:41] I'm compassionate for the way they are

[45:44] seeing it. It's too bad

[45:48] because you can lose somebody that you

[45:52] loved and love is soul thing.

[45:57] So they're not lost. All you're doing is

[46:02] change it form.

[46:05] If I could tell them that I would.

[46:11] I've spent so much time in India where

[46:15] they live as souls. They are [snorts]

[46:18] thinking of themselves as souls and they

[46:21] are thinking

[46:24] of reincarnation

[46:27] and that's the way I live.

[46:37] Um, earlier when you had first talked

[46:39] about September 11th, you said if you

[46:41] were God, you would have done things

[46:43] differently.

[46:44] Um, I I get I unlike most of the people

[46:48] here, I've never really heard of you

[46:49] before and I haven't read any of your

[46:51] books. Um, I've heard your name, but I

[46:53] didn't know who you were or what you

[46:54] were going to talk about. But do you

[46:55] really believe God was responsible for

[46:57] what happens when something bad happens?

[46:59] Like I died of a heart attack last year

[47:02] and they brought me back. You had a

[47:03] stroke. But I don't blame God. Did you

[47:05] say you blamed God?

[47:07] >> Yeah.

[47:08] >> Wow.

[47:09] >> Yeah.

[47:11] There's one at the top and there's two.

[47:18] There's two is good and evil down there.

[47:23] That's another plane of consciousness.

[47:26] I don't want to put God is good and

[47:30] leave him out of bad

[47:33] him

[47:35] us it. The one the one includes the bad.

[47:43] The one includes the bad.

[47:46] My one is one.

[47:50] It includes all of it.

[47:54] And this is all of it.

[47:59] >> Hi, good evening. Um, as everybody is

[48:01] talking about September 11, I wanted to

[48:04] share my own personal feelings. Like the

[48:07] lady who just spoke, I've never heard of

[48:09] you until my husband told me a few days

[48:12] about you to be and the one thing he

[48:15] knew about you was to be here now.

[48:18] >> Right. That's the only thing he knew.

[48:20] >> Yeah. [laughter]

[48:22] So I said, "Okay, now if someone could

[48:25] be that enlightened, I would like to

[48:27] meet that man." So he brought me along.

[48:31] I've always of my own consciousness of

[48:34] what my God is all about because I feel

[48:38] that if someone was responsible for my

[48:41] being, I had to have my own personal

[48:44] relationship with him.

[48:45] >> And I've developed one over the years.

[48:49] Sometimes in my own self I it doesn't

[48:52] always go with the norm. So I keep it to

[48:54] myself because it's like a secret. I

[48:57] know a secret what I know.

[48:59] >> Secret. Yes.

[49:01] >> So with anything

[49:04] with anything I you know I always look

[49:07] at myself as a child and he's my father.

[49:10] >> Child. Yes. So in myself, I ran to him

[49:14] when this thing happened and I said,

[49:18] "What? How? What happened here?"

[49:22] And then he didn't answer me right away

[49:24] cuz he's wise, you know, and he knew

[49:26] that he had to take his time to give me

[49:28] such an answer that I could understand

[49:30] it. So days later, I pondered it and I

[49:34] says, "What? Give me I need an answer

[49:36] now." But he wanted me to wait because

[49:40] it had to be an an answer that I could

[49:42] understand. So when the answer came to

[49:45] me, he says, "Molly," cuz he likes to

[49:48] call me Molly. He says, "Look,

[49:53] 6,000 people died that day."

[49:58] And I don't know really the number of

[50:00] people that live in America. Maybe

[50:02] somebody else here know. And look at the

[50:06] whole entire United States. Not only

[50:09] United States but the world that have

[50:12] come together in that moment

[50:17] of two plane crashing one, you know, in

[50:20] the World Trade Center. It affected the

[50:24] whole entire world and brought us to a

[50:28] place that we had to go to him for all

[50:32] the answers that we needed. Now when I

[50:35] walk down the street, I see love that

[50:38] you just spoke about in the eyes of

[50:41] everyone. I feel love towards because

[50:45] I'm afraid that I may not have the

[50:47] moment to express it. So out of it come

[50:49] this bonding this love that we had

[50:53] forgotten. This place that we have

[50:56] forgotten. The moment that we have

[50:58] forgotten that to be here now love one

[51:01] another. Share with one another. Give to

[51:04] one another. And you know what?

[51:06] Everything else is secondary. I am so

[51:09] sorry that it happened but the gift that

[51:12] we have gotten out of it. Hallelujah to

[51:15] that.

[51:24] The Ramdos here and now podcast is

[51:27] brought to you by Be Here Now Network

[51:29] and romdos.org.

[51:31] We appreciate you [music] listening. You

[51:34] can support the preservation of Ramdos's

[51:36] legacy by joining our Patreon. [music]

[51:39] There you can find every episode of the

[51:41] Ramdos here and now podcast ad free as

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[51:50] and friends. [music] Visit

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Be Here Now Network is the creator of Heart Wisdom with Jack Kornfield, a podcast exploring consciousness, spirituality, and personal transformation. With 313 episodes, they have c…

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Soul-perceptionTrauma-graceConsciousnessStrokeSpiritual-practice

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Questions fréquemment posées

Soul perception is the ability to witness your experience from the observing consciousness rather than identifying with the ego's story. Instead of being the person who had the stroke, you become the awareness watching the stroke happen. This shift moves you from suffering the experience to witnessing it, which creates inner freedom.
The stroke forced him to release identification with his body and personality and move into soul consciousness. Initially devastating because it contradicted his belief in his guru's grace, he eventually understood it as 'tough grace'—a catalyst that pushed his consciousness into the witness, the observing awareness that remains untouched by physical circumstance.
The ego (personality, preference, fear of death), the soul (observing consciousness with one motive: union with the beloved), and the One (unified consciousness that underlies and includes everything). Most people live identified with the ego; spiritual practice moves you into identification with the soul.
Yes. Ram Dass suggested that 9/11, like his stroke, was a collective trauma that could push a culture's consciousness into higher planes if met with soul perception rather than ego reaction. The choice is whether to stay trapped in ego grief or to use the trauma as a doorway to deeper spiritual awareness.
By fulfilling your dharmic duties—living fully in the world, engaging with your incarnation—while maintaining soul consciousness underneath. This is what Krishna teaches Arjuna: do what you do, but dedicate it all to God. Your body acts, your soul witnesses and remembers itself as an expression of the One.
He had written a book called 'How Can I Help?' but the stroke reversed that into 'How Can You Help Me?' This surrender of the independence his ego valued most became a path to real freedom—the independence of consciousness itself, which cannot be diminished or stolen no matter what happens to the body.

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